A Conversation with Saiming

I feel like I knew of Saiming before I really knew of Saiming. Whether it was the countless viral clips of him freestyling nonstop on Balamii Radio that kept cycling through my Instagram reels, or his hit single 'WOOF MEOW' that found its way onto everyone’s summer '22 playlist, the South London-based Saiming has been quietly yet unmistakably carving out his presence in London’s underground rap scene.

At the top of April, he released his sophomore EP what’s the alternative?—a meditative yet razor-edged project where introspective raps weave seamlessly through neo-jazz-laced instrumentals, while still remaining just as clever and incisive as his earlier work. Honestly, if you've been somewhat cognizant of the music coming out of London recently, this project is worth tapping into. It’s like the man doesn’t even need to take a breath while he's recording his verse.

A few days after the release of his EP, I was able to find some time with Saiming on a google meet. With an Afro reminiscent of Huey from The Boondocks taking up a good 3/4ths of the screen, we talked growing up in South London, the creation of grime, and him being a fan of Fulham.

CUSP: So this is your first EP in a minute. Really your sophomore tape – how do you feel about it?

Saiming: I'm very happy. It's been a long process to get to this point. Sometimes it takes me a while to make music, and sometimes I don’t know when the right time to release it is. So, it feels like a bit of a relief that it’s finally out.

CUSP: How was the creative process for crafting this EP?

Saiming: It all came together in pieces. The first song, "Playing Games," was the first I made, back in 2022, but I lost my laptop and all my files. It set things back, and I worked on other projects. But then, in late 2023, I got the instrumental for another track and started writing. I went to New York in January, where I wrote "Belongz Freestyle" and "LMNO." I initially thought I'd drop those as a two-part single, but as I kept making more songs, I felt like it could become a full project.

CUSP: How was New York? I feel like New York and London are cousins.

Saiming: in my experience, it was quite similar, but it was a weird trip because I traveled there alone, and I'd never traveled alone before. I don't know what it was like in my head. I thought that I would get out there and be like, a social butterfly, and I could just go out. I got there, and I got social anxiety, so I couldn't even go to a bar and talk to people.

CUSP: I'm the same way. I'm not gonna lie.

Saiming: I didn’t really have connections at the time, apart from one of my friends who shot all the artwork for this project. But yeah, it did feel quite similar. Brooklyn felt like South London. I guess there are a lot of similarities, like, you can get Jamaican food anywhere, and it’s kind of the same. But, yeah, I haven’t experienced so much of New York to say what it’s really like.

CUSP: How was growing up in South London?

Saiming: I think it really varies a lot, depending on the person, because London’s a bit like New York in that sense—everyone’s really close together, so there’s a wide range of experiences depending on where you are. For me, I grew up more in inner London, but then I went to school kind of outside of that, not exactly in the sticks, but close to it. So, my experience has been pretty unique. I live about 10 minutes from Brixton, which is one of the most historically important places in Black British history. It's huge for Afro-Caribbean culture, and a lot of musicians have come out of there. So, that’s had a massive influence on what I see, what I’m aware of, and what I listen to.

CUSP: There’s a lot of live instrumentation on your new EP. Does it feel different writing lyrics to live instruments compared to beats?

Saiming: Yeah, there’s quite a bit of live instrumentation on the project, but most of it was still made by beatmakers. For example, three of the songs feature Dylan Hingston, who’s a producer and sample maker. He plays trumpet, keys, and guitar, so he brings that live instrumentation into the production. I also have my friend Maddie, who’s a saxophonist, on a few tracks. It was mostly done after the fact, but I want to work more with live instruments from scratch in the future. Recently, I’ve been performing a lot with a live band, and it’s been really fun. I love hearing how they interpret my songs. It’s a totally different vibe. I definitely want to create more music from the ground up with live instruments moving forward.

CUSP: Are there any artists who influenced this shift towards live instrumentation, or just your music in general?

Saiming: There’s a lot of them, but a few of the biggest ones would be JME, Smino, Saba, and Noname — that whole Ghetto Sage wave has had a big influence. Of course, there’s also a lot of grime and UK rap influences in what I’m making. Cadet was another big influence for me; he is an amazing MC. There are too many names to list, honestly.

CUSP: I was reading up on grime’s origins, especially how it grew from UK garage and jungle, which were created by Black and brown youth. Do you think that gets overlooked in grime history?

Saiming: It's hard to say because I’m not always engaging with how people talk about grime, if that makes sense. But I do think sometimes it can get overlooked. In the UK, genres like garage, jungle, and grime — all of them are Black music genres. And even though they have a lot of different cultural influences, the core of it is rooted in Black culture. I think sometimes people can downplay that. If you look at the influences on grime, especially the Caribbean influence, it’s clear that genres like jungle wouldn’t even exist without reggae and dub, which are deeply rooted in Black culture. That influence shows up in everything — the slang, the instrumentation, all of it

CUSP: One thing I noticed in your music is your insane breath control—it's like you're rapping for two minutes straight without taking a breath. Is that something you worked on?

Saiming: It's definitely something I've worked on. I remember meeting this artist from the UK called AJ Tracey. He was doing a CD signing, probably before COVID. I went there with a friend, and I used to rap on Instagram and Snapchat. My friend told me, "No, you have to rap, you have to show him your music." [laughs] So I bought the CD, rapped for him, and he filmed me. He said, "Yeah, keep going, it's good," but then he told me I needed to work on my breath control. After that, I started taking it more seriously.

Now, when I write a song, I always try to rap the whole verse in one go. If I don’t have the breath control for it, I change the lyrics to make sure I can handle it. Most of the time, I don’t like to punch in. I know it's more common with American artists, but I prefer to do it all in one take. If I have a two-minute song, I want to do it all without breaks, and it feels like it’s all one take. I wouldn’t want to make songs that I can’t perform live, but I’m definitely going to experiment more with different ways of recording. I want to be sure I can perform it live without needing breaks or playing the track in the background.

CUSP: Wow. So you basically got your start from rapping on social media?

Saiming: Yea man, mainly instagram.

CUSP: Freestyling seems like a core part of grime. How did you get comfortable with a mic?

Saiming: I used to, like, rap with my friends when I first started, but I didn't really do it seriously. I think what helped me the most was going to a lot of open mics. That really helped me get comfortable. I met a lot of the people I work with now through those experiences, like J2, who features on my project. I met him at this thing called Ori Jam in East London. It's like an open mic jam where any musicians—instrumentalists or vocalists—can get up and do their thing. Me and other artists would go there every Monday around 2022. We’d always be there, so it really helped.

Getting on stage with a live band also made us more comfortable performing with a band. When you’re up there, you have to adjust to what the band’s doing; you can’t just go up and perform your song exactly the way you want it. The band brings their own energy, so you’ve got to go with that. I think doing that helped me a lot, and we’d end up freestyling outside a lot more too. Going to jams, open mics, and being around rappers in general has definitely been a big thing that helped me get more comfortable. Ciphers as well, especially in grime. That was a huge part of it.

CUSP: I always wished I could freestyle—I feel like my brain moves too slow.

Saiming: I used to feel the same way. I remember sitting down with one rapper, and he was saying the same thing. He was like, "Yeah, you think it’s not possible, but if you keep practicing, you will get better at it." Even then, I don’t freestyle as much. I can freestyle, but a lot of grime artists are really good at memorizing lyrics quickly. Like, back in the day, they might write something and know they’re going to clash with another MC the next day. So, they’d have to write something about this MC, have it ready, and deliver it.

A lot of the time, if you see us on radio sets, it's not really freestyling. Some rappers are really calculated. They’ll only get on the mic when they know they’re going to deliver. Other times, I’ll be on there and it's like, I’m just trying to pull it from thin air.

CUSP: Your music blends so many influences, from grime to neo-jazz. Was that an intentional creative choice or something that developed over time?

Saiming: Yeah, I think it definitely was when I started, but even then, I’m not sure. I definitely want to make the kind of music I'm interested in, especially when it comes to the artists I’ve been listening to, particularly American artists over the past few years. There's so much influence from soul, jazz, and other genres, and those artists do such a great job of translating those influences into the music they make now. I’ve always wanted to go in that direction and mold those influences into my sound.

So, with this project, having more of a jazz influence and trying to incorporate live jazz instrumentation was really important from the start. I think with the beats I choose, even if it’s not strictly jazz, I’m always influenced by the things I listen to, and that helps me decide what I want to create.

CUSP: In the US, there’s a lot of pressure from old-school hip-hop purists about what’s "acceptable" in rap and hip-hop. Have you or the artists you work with ever experienced anything similar in the UK underground scene?

Saiming: Honestly, I haven't experienced it too much. I think the UK underground scene is in a pretty good place right now, with so many different sounds emerging. Even this little thing we've got going on is so different from other underground artists, like the ones in the YT’S world and that whole scene. There’s a lot of experimentation happening, and people are generally open to hearing new sounds.

I think, especially compared to the past, like when Bliss, who's older than me, was making music—he’s probably experienced more resistance, maybe around five years ago. But now, with the current space we’re in, there’s a lot more room for experimentation. I haven't come across too many people who aren't fucking with it. Sometimes, though, I do wonder about things that people don’t say, you know? You always wonder about that.

CUSP: How do you stay true to grime while experimenting with and adapting new sounds?

Saiming: That’s a good question. I think, for me, it’s a tough one because sometimes I’m not sure how my music is perceived by grime purists. I know someone I work with quite a bit, his name is Bliss. He makes similar music to mine, where he takes grime and builds on it with different, more alternative sounds—especially instrumental tracks, which we’ve been talking about. Some things we’re doing might not necessarily be strictly grime, but I think the nature of grime is that any grime artist has to believe they’re the best, much like an athlete who believes they’re the best at their sport. As a rapper, you have to have that mentality of being the best. Even if it's friendly competition, there’s always that energy in the scene. A lot of the time, we reference other grime artists in our music. If I’m drawing inspiration from something, I won’t just take it and run with it; I’ll reference the artists who paved the way for us.

But I know Bliss has mentioned that when he was making music in the past, some people—especially those more rooted in the genre’s purest form—might not have been open to hearing things that weren’t strictly within the genre. As for me, I’m just doing my thing, and I feel like I’m finding my own way.